Finances for High School Counselors: Spending, Saving, and Investing with Jeremy Schneider [Episode 115]

Lauren Tingle 0:00
We are experts at talking about mental health, relationships, self regulation, post secondary planning, a lot of things as high school counselors. But when it comes to money, how versed are we and how comfortable do we feel talking about it? This is something that my husband and I talk about a lot for our family and our marriage.

Lauren Tingle 0:19
Whether that’s paying off debt, we’re debt free, we’re proud of that, saving and investing, planning for our future or setting financial goals, I promise this conversation is something worth talking about.

Lauren Tingle 0:31
In this episode, I brought on a guest named Jeremy Schneider to talk about finances as it pertains to us as high school counselors. So not necessarily how we’re teaching students about finances or planning for their futures, but spending, saving and investing for our own selves.

Lauren Tingle 0:48
Jeremy Schneider is a successful entrepreneur and personal finance expert after starting an internet company in college and selling it at the age of 34 for over $5 million and retiring at 36. Jeremy has dedicated his life to teaching personal finance. He founded personal finance club, a community of champions of the individual investor who helped further financial education.

Lauren Tingle 1:12
Jeremy likes playing beach volleyball, and writing bios about himself in the third person. If you couldn’t tell from his bio, Jeremy is a fun guy to talk with. He gives some awesome practical tips and he dispelled some common myths around finances too, which I really appreciated. So let’s get into this conversation where I know you’re gonna take away some really great and valuable nuggets of wisdom.

Lauren Tingle 1:40
You got into this profession to make a difference in your students lives, but you’re spread thin by all the things that keep getting added to your to do list. I can’t create more hours in the day, but I can invite you into my counselor clique where you’ll finally catch your breath. Come with me as we unpack creative ideas and effective strategies that will help you be the counselor who leaves a lifelong impact on your students.

Lauren Tingle 2:02
I’m Lauren Tingle, your high school counseling hype girl, here to help you energize your school counseling program and remind you of how much you love your job.

Lauren Tingle 2:13
Hi, Jeremy, I’m so excited to have you on High School Counseling Conversations. We’ve never had a conversation on this podcast before about finances, budgeting, financial health. And so I thought I would bring in an expert to chat with high school counselors about this topic.

Jeremy Schneider 2:28
Hi, Lauren. Thank you, I would love to talk about money. It’s what I like to do for some reason.

Lauren Tingle 2:33
Yeah. So I found you on Instagram. My husband is more of a money and finance nerd than I am. But I still find it very valuable. And it’s something that we have conversations in our home around a lot. And when I told him, Jeremy Schneider is coming on my podcast, he’s like that is so cool. Like, I already followed him on Instagram and I was like, Yeah, I asked him if he had any questions for you.

Lauren Tingle 2:56
But he hasn’t gotten back to me. So we’re gonna go with the questions that I’ve prepared for you. He’s not a high school counselor. So he doesn’t get priority in that anyway. So let’s dive in. I have already given the listeners kind of your bio and your background.

Lauren Tingle 3:10
So let’s just dive into I’m going to call it financial health. I don’t know if there’s a better phrasing for that. But like, why is financial health important for people, especially educators to be thinking about? Why is it something that we shouldn’t just, you know, hope it disappears or something, we need to be thinking about it, right?

Jeremy Schneider 3:27
Yeah, money is weird, because we go through school, you know, went through 12 years of school, college, maybe even some post college degrees, all with the purpose of, you know, education has many purposes. But I think one arching purpose is to make a living. And then we never really talked about the measure of that living, which is dollars.

Jeremy Schneider 3:52
And I’m paying with a broad brush here, because I know there’s amazing educators out there who do integrate into their lessons, but there’s very few like government mandated money courses, and that bubbles up to adults, you know, it’s that we have adults who have spent their lives learning to make a living, but then don’t know what to do with money.

Jeremy Schneider 4:09
And yet, it’s so important, I think, when you look at the data about people’s concerns, and why marriages fail, and stress and all that stuff, like money is always at the root of these problems. Yeah, we don’t ever, you know, don’t ever learn about it. So it’s crazy, people like me out there who are like shouting from the rooftops like, hey, let’s like take this more seriously. Because it’s important.

Jeremy Schneider 4:28
You know, first of all, if you’re like, in poverty, money is like the necessary thing you need to pull yourself out. But even if you’re middle class, it can be this huge source of stress. That can be the difference between building wealth and living a fruitful life and being broke and stressed your whole life. So I think taking some focus to like, do it right and do some simple things can just make your life a lot better.

Lauren Tingle 4:50
Yeah, and not even just the learning about money, but talking about it. It can feel so taboo, especially, you know, and how much money do you make and how you’re living, whether you’re living above or below your means or what your goals are for finances.

Lauren Tingle 5:05
Like, I feel like the more we talk about it, the less taboo it’s going to be. And it should be like that. We talk about everything else when we talk about being vulnerable or transparent with so many other things in life, but money is one of those things that like, still gets a little weird sometimes for people.

Jeremy Schneider 5:19
Oh even, you know, even me like I post my bank account online, you know, my kind of bios says transparent millionaire, because I think that everyone, like you don’t know what your neighbor makes, you don’t know what your family makes and then this idea of the millionaires, what do they do? It’s like this, like secret offshore swiss tax loophole thing?

Jeremy Schneider 5:39
And I’m like, no, it’s not, at least not for me. Like, it’s like, this is what I do is, and you’re right. It’s like such a taboo, like, No, you can’t ask them what you make, you can ask them about their debt. And I think that’s bad, you know, for various reasons how we got in this place, I think it’s bad.

Jeremy Schneider 5:53
But you’re right, in this age of transparency and vulnerability. Money seems to have not been included in that for some reason. Because even I, when I am out at a conference or a party, and people know what I do, and I ask them a question about money, I like ugh.

Lauren Tingle 6:09
I don’t want to talk to the money guy about money. Because he has thoughts about it. Like, no, let’s talk about it.

Jeremy Schneider 6:15
Yeah, exactly.

Lauren Tingle 6:16
So I’ve seen you talk about building wealth by living below your means? Will you offer some encouragement to counselors who feel like they’re already maybe like, at their means? Like, how did they live below that? Or maybe some inspiration for some of those who either feel like they could work with some of that margin? Like, what does it mean to live below your means in order to build wealth and kind of change your future?

Jeremy Schneider 6:38
Yeah, the cold reality of the math is, if you spend all your money, then you’re broke, no matter how much you make. And if you make half a million dollars a year and you spend all your money, then you’re broke. But if you make $60,000 a year, and you spend $40,000 a year, and that $20,000 a year, you don’t spend easily makes you a multimillionaire over the course of an investing career.

Jeremy Schneider 6:59
And if you make very little money, it’s tougher, for sure. You know, that said, more money doesn’t instantly solve the problem. You know, there’s countless examples of people who are making well into six figures who still live paycheck to paycheck. And so I think there’s this misconception that, because my income is medium or low, I can’t do it. Or if I made more money then that would solve my problems. And that’s just not true.

Jeremy Schneider 7:25
And the reality is, you have to live below your means. And so someone making, you know, I often post someone making $60,000 a year, for example, and living below their means the comments are like, there’s no way you could save 15% making 60,000 a year. I was like, Well, some people make 50,000 a year. That’s way less than 15%.

Lauren Tingle 7:41
Right.

Jeremy Schneider 7:42
What do they do? And so you know, the point isn’t to, you know, wag my finger and shame people being like, Oh, you’re spending too much. But it’s just to point out, hey, that’s the reality of the math, if you spend every dollar you make, and if you get a $10,000 raise, you’ll have $10,000 of extra money, that’s probably not true. Because your lifestyle naturally inflates to your level of income.

Jeremy Schneider 8:03
And so in order to build wealth, you have to go the opposite way, and say hey, I’m going to pay myself first, I’m going to take some off the top and put into saving put into investing. Force myself to live below my means, and then with what’s left, live more simply, and then, then you’ll be off to building wealth. And, you know, it’s much more, I believe, it’s much more freeing to be living on $50,000 per year, making 60, than to be living on 60, making 60.

Jeremy Schneider 8:30
Because if you’re living on 50, you’re building wealth, you’re saving, your future secure, you have a buffer. If you’re spending 60 and making 60, your paycheck to paycheck every week is a stress. Any like a job loss, or an illness or an unexpected event, or taxes or kids or whatever could throw a wrench in the system. And that’s a terrifying place to be. And so while it’s not fun to spend less money in the short term, but I think it actually pretty quickly makes you feel better.

Lauren Tingle 9:01
Yeah, that’s such an encouragement to dispel that myth. Like if I only made more money, I’d be able to live below my means. But like you said, I mean, you could give an example of every single amount of money that somebody might make in their job. And there are people who are living below that, and what a comforting thing, because all of the things you just listed kids, health, they all come up like inevitably, and if we don’t have that buffer, that margin, we’re going to be living in a really stressful situation all the time.

Lauren Tingle 9:30
Like that fight or flight mode all the time with her money when I don’t think we’re like intended to live that way with our money. But that’s an encouragement because I think people especially counselors working in the education system, you see how much money you’re gonna make each year for the rest of your life. Like, we don’t get a random $10,000 bonus.

Lauren Tingle 9:49
We don’t get this, but it kind of makes it nice because it’s predictable. So you could really map out your financial future, knowing you know, if I stay in this field for forever, this is what I can expect. These are some goals that I could set.

Jeremy Schneider 10:03
Yeah,

Lauren Tingle 10:03
It’s encouraging actually to hear you say that you can live below your means. And that’s a good thing.

Jeremy Schneider 10:09
And I think, you know, when I hear that every year, your income and retirement is mapped out for you, that feels I’ve lived my life as an entrepreneur. So that feels very limiting to me. But there is an option there, which is money can make more money. And so if you don’t just subscribe to okay, my stipend is X dollars, there for me to spend X dollars and work until I die.

Jeremy Schneider 10:33
You say, Hey, I’m willing to take my money by the reigns, not spend it all, put some of it to work and investments, then you can build wealth. Actually, teachers are one of the, I should research this some time, but I’m almost positive here look at one of the professions with the most self made millionaires.

Lauren Tingle 10:50
I think so too, I’ve read that before.

Jeremy Schneider 10:52
Okay, good. So, and I think because teachers are smart, responsible, hardworking, and a lot of them have figured out this strategy, which is, hey, don’t just take what’s been given to me, like, let’s put some of it to work. And you don’t have to save that much money it turns out, if you’re investing kind of monthly along the way, because there’s this magical effect of compound growth.

Jeremy Schneider 11:14
You know, you’re not just saving under your mattress, you’re investing which, you know, over time turns into a snowball, first slow but bigger and bigger and bigger than takes off. And then that projected income and retirement you talked about suddenly kind of goes out the window and is dwarfed by this snowball of money that you’ve created and you can retire early or buy a beach house or you know, live better than like the rubric has assigned to you.

Lauren Tingle 11:45
Is it a goal of yours to get some small groups up and running at your high school? Are small groups the task but just keep getting pushed down on your to do list and never make it to your actual calendar and then out into the world? I want you to check out my curated podcast playlist just for small group counseling.

Lauren Tingle 12:00
The episodes featured cover topics like overall benefits of small groups, partner buy in, student buy in, facilitation tips, and more. Had to counselorclique.com/smallgroupplaylist to put this playlist in your Spotify lineup and get inspired to run some small groups this year. That’s counselorclique.com/smallgroupplaylist. Now let’s get back to the episode.

Lauren Tingle 12:24
So will you talk a little bit more about how valuable time can be in that because if we’re listening to this right now, and we’ve really never put any thought into our financial future, what value can time bring to our savings or investing? Maybe like give us some examples of how you’ve seen people use time to their advantage in terms of getting ready for retirement or planning for their future?

Jeremy Schneider 12:48
Yeah, it’s just it’s just simple math. And it’s partially inspiring, and partially discouraging, depending on your perspective, I guess. But I’ll try to make it all inspiring at the end. But basically, the stock market if you invest money, and I’m a very rational, conservative investor, I’m not picking stocks, I’m not doing anything speculative or risky. I just buy the companies of the world. So as they profit and grow, the profits and growth come back to me in what’s called the index fund.

Jeremy Schneider 13:17
And if you go back in time and look at how the stock market has done, historically, it returns about 10% per year, on average, not every year, of course, but on average over time, it turns about 10% per year, and 10% per year turns into exponential growth. If you have 1000 bucks, and you get a 10% return, that’s only 100 bucks. But if you have a million bucks, and you get a 10% return as $100,000.

Jeremy Schneider 13:41
And so as you’re investing monthly and the amount grows and grows and grows, this gets huge. And so for example, 500 bucks a month, or a year is 6000 bucks, 500 times 12 is 6000. And if you get a 10% return on that, let’s say you invest all at the beginning and just for round numbers 10% of 6000 is 600. So you get 6600. I think we’d all appreciate 6600 bucks extra the bank if you’re saving 500 bucks a month, but it’s not life changing stuff.

Jeremy Schneider 14:09
But if you continue that for 40 years, you don’t end up with 40 times that you’re going to put about $3 million. Because of this massive impact of compound growth, it turns out that most of the $3 million isn’t what you saved. It’s not even the interest on what you saved. It’s like the interest on the interest. It’s the growth of the growth, which is this magical, magical impact. And so, you know, that’s the impact of time, right?

Jeremy Schneider 14:34
When we went from one year to 40 years, you know, we skipped kind of like the the important 39 years of it, but you know, it gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. And so some people might be listening. I talk to people all the time. I’m 42 and I talk to people around my age and say I’m 40, is too late?

Lauren Tingle 14:49
That was going to be my next question.

Jeremy Schneider 14:51
Okay, good. Of course, I know if you look at how long you expect to live as a 40 year old, you know, it’s well into your 80s you know, the I think the you know the average lifespan us is around 78 right now. But if you’ve hit 40, you’ve avoided dying in your youth, you know, childhood, babies, teenagers, 20s, 30s.

Jeremy Schneider 15:10
And so now once you’re 40, your actual expected lifespan is your 80s, which is a 45 year time span. And you know, trust me, 60 year old version of you will wish that 40 year old version of you started because that was 20 years, you could have been investing and how that money like start growing exponentially, right?

Lauren Tingle 15:30
Like 60 year old you is not going to regret those last 20 years of investing whenever you start is a good time to start.

Jeremy Schneider 15:37
Yeah, the the the ancient Chinese proverb, I think says the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. But the second best time is today. And so it’s so easy to look back and be like ah man, if I was a really, you know, precocious 12 year old who was speculating on Bitcoin, I’d be a billionaire.

Lauren Tingle 15:54
But you know, we can all speculate what that would be like, right?

Jeremy Schneider 15:56
Exactly. But what you can think about is, man, when I’m 60, I will be really grateful for 40 year old me putting some money away. And even if you’re 60, right, like, if you’re 60 your lifespan is probably looking in the 80s, it’s still 25 years, right?

Lauren Tingle 16:10
Yeah.

Jeremy Schneider 16:11
And so you know, this two late thing, I don’t even really sometimes fully get the question like, what’s the alternative? Like, just bury yourself in debt and die broke? Like, that doesn’t seem like a good option. Like I said, even even though partially the point is to live better later, you’re also living happier now because you’re not feeling as much stress and doom about your future.

Lauren Tingle 16:33
Yeah, totally. What kinds of practical habits can somebody, can a counselor do right now to move the needle with their savings? I mean, if that feels really hard to do, to live below their means, or to have some extra money to invest? What are some meaningful things that they could do?

Jeremy Schneider 16:50
Yeah, I mean, the first place to look is the big stuff, which is housing, transportation. And so if you have a car payment, then I would strongly think about how to get out of that car payment. So for example, I never bought a new car until the age of 35 I think. I owned, you know, I’m not a teacher. So I have a different experience.

Jeremy Schneider 17:13
But I owned and started internet company, and my take home pay was $36,000 per year. I was always the lowest paid employee at my company, I paid everyone more. And I’m not saying something like tricky accounting thing where like, I paid myself $1. And I got a million stock options. Like, we were a small company, I had no funding, I just took home what I could from the income we made, and my max take home salary was 36,000.

Jeremy Schneider 17:36
And so I bought, you know, my car was a 99 Ford Explorer, I bought in the year 2010. So as an 11 year old car, I paid $3,000 cash for it. And I drove it for the next six years. And I was like, you know, this, this great car. You know, and with cars, people have tons of excuses, like, oh, I need to be reliable, or this or that. And, you know, yeah, every year, so something went wrong with the car, and it cost me like 500 bucks, but 500 bucks, a year is like, what, 42 a month or something, right?

Lauren Tingle 18:06
Compared to a big car payment,

Jeremy Schneider 18:08
The average car payment right now is like $700. It’s bananas. And so this like, it’s kind of like this false flag argument be like, Oh, I can’t, I can’t afford $500 once a year, therefore, I need to pay $700 a month. The math ain’t math there.

Lauren Tingle 18:24
It’s not mathing.

Jeremy Schneider 18:26
Not at all. So yeah, so for sure. I would never, I never borrow money for a car. If you can’t afford cash. I never lease a car. You buy modest cars with cash, as you build wealth. Sure, you can move up in car but don’t when you’re basically borrowing from your future to buy a better car today, then you’re mortgaging your future right, then you’re not going to have the opportunity for growth.

Jeremy Schneider 18:46
And then the other one is housing right. And you know, these things aren’t easy to say on a podcast. But and I know it’s like hard out there if you’re looking for housing, but there’s options. You can do roommates or look for rentals or cheaper properties or you know, I think sometimes we spend so much time and effort on little decisions like ooh, like you’re looking at the grocery store, like looking for, say 15 cents, 50 cents on a different brand.

Jeremy Schneider 19:12
And then we just buy the first house we see, you know, and I’m like, Ooh, you could have maybe saved $50,000, if you would have been more judicious about waiting for the right property. So those are the two big ones and then beyond that. I think my favorite strategy for budgeting is just like I said earlier, pay yourself first, set up automatic investments out of your checking account into savings into investing, because I think I could sit here and say you’re gonna budget every dollar.

Jeremy Schneider 19:40
But I know in reality here on planet Earth, 95% of us are never going to have a detailed budget. It’s a favorite trope of finance experts to like wag your finger and say you should be budgeting, but the reality is, most people aren’t. And so you can kind of

Lauren Tingle 19:53
Like automate some of those processes, so you don’t even have to be a disciplined person to be able to do it.

Jeremy Schneider 19:59
Exactly, because I think what most of us do is we kind of look in our bank account and see how much is there and see how we’re doing. And if we can spend a little more, spend a little less. And so if you basically automate that money into investing in savings, you can still just do that. And then whatever’s left, you can do it.

Jeremy Schneider 20:11
But then at least you have, you know, you’re paying yourself first. You have this plan in place, to be building wealth over time, and automating is the best way to do it. Because then it’s kind of out of sight, out of mind happens automatically. And then it starts that magic of compound growth.

Lauren Tingle 20:24
Yeah, I think that’s so smart to go with the big things first, because we often think like, if I just don’t go to Starbucks, you know, for my Friday treat every Friday, I’m gonna save this much of the course of the year. But when you look at the big things that take up a big portion of our income, and the things that we’re making huge decisions about that last for years.

Lauren Tingle 20:46
I mean, those decisions on buying a house and a car, we’re going to live with those decisions for a while, that feels like I mean, a discipline in itself to look between those two, like, you might feel like, Oh, I’m gonna pat myself on the back, because I’m not spending as much on on my coffee, or I’m going to shop at Aldi instead of Publix or something. But those are tiny little things. But there are big things that make an impact to agree.

Jeremy Schneider 21:10
And the tiny things do add up. But I think a lot of times we’re pennywise and pound foolish, right? You save the five bucks in your grocery trip or on your coffee, and then you you’ve got a $700 month car payment, I’m like, okay, that’s if you get your cost of car ownership down to 200 bucks, that’s $500 a month that you just opened up there.

Jeremy Schneider 21:29
And a $200 month cost of car ownership, if you buy in cash and make repairs, as you need is still a pretty nice car and it gets you from A to B. And yeah, there’s probably some people listening who are like, Nope, I need my brand new car. I’m like, that’s fine. That’s your choice. But, you know, that’s the problem, right? That’s what’s keeping you from building wealth.

Lauren Tingle 21:49
Right? And hopefully, they’re listening because they they want to be encouraged. And maybe they’re willing to change some habits, or hear from an expert and say, Okay, this is one thing I could do different. I know, we talked about a couple of different things in terms of money, like budgeting, investing, saving, is there one thing right now that you would tell high school counselor, do this to change your trajectory for a better financial future?

Lauren Tingle 22:12
Like, I don’t know, does one of those outweigh any of the other ones? Or is there anything we didn’t talk about that you’re like, No, this is a key that I want you to walk away with and remember from hearing about money, and how it could change your future?

Jeremy Schneider 22:24
So in the world of finance, there’s so much noise out there. It’s like day trading and insurance and tax loopholes. And it’s like a new like, at least on social media, you see these like hacks and all this noise, and it’s really dizzying.

Lauren Tingle 22:39
It’s overwhelming

Jeremy Schneider 22:41
Overwhelming. And the important takeaway that I want to instill in people is like all that is nonsense. The way to build wealth is to do exactly two things. I call them my two rules of building wealth. Rule number one is to live below your means. And rule number two is invest early and often. And so we’re more talking about living below your means.

Jeremy Schneider 23:00
But if you again, spend all your money you make, you’re broke. So you have to live below your means. But then with what you don’t spend, you automate those investments over time, then you’re rich.

Jeremy Schneider 23:08
And I think all the time I get people who asked me like, Oh, should I be buying a $7,000 car? So I can claim it as a tax write off? I’m like, No, that’s not how rich people get rich. But you know, that’s not just in money, people want the diet pill, people always want this like amazing hack. But the reality is rich people get there by living below their means.

Jeremy Schneider 23:30
And you know, I’m painting with a broad brush. Again, there’s some people who are fantastically lucky and things like that. But you spend less than you make, you invest and chip away at it over time. And just kind of like the diet and exercise of fitness.

Jeremy Schneider 23:30
It’s like if you eat healthy and workout every day, over time, you’re going to be in great shape. If you spend less than you make and invest over time, you’re going to be very wealthy. And if you keep getting distracted by all these hacks and loopholes, and all that stuff that you’re hoping that work, you know, it’s like, yep, chasing different fad diets or something. It’s not going to work overtime.

Lauren Tingle 24:00
Exactly. That was great encouragement, and a great like last little thing to boil down and send people away with. So Jeremy, what kind of resources do you offer if listeners want to connect with you or keep learning about personal finances with you?

Jeremy Schneider 24:14
I think what I talk about most because it’s what I get asked about the most is when people are listening to this and say, this snowball this dude was talking about this 10%, this million dollars. Like how like, what do you mean, invest? How? And so that’s basically what I mostly educate on. And it’s no day trading nonsense. It’s just simply explaining the basics of how the investment world works.

Jeremy Schneider 24:38
And so on my website, at personalfinanceclub.com. There’s a big button right in the homepage that says start here that basically walks you through what’s the stock, what’s the bond, how to open an account, how to put the money in, what index fund to choose, the best practices and it basically walks you through the more logistical strategic side of this higher level of conversation we just had.

Jeremy Schneider 25:00
So yeah, if you want to find me @PersonalFinanceClub, I also do daily Instagram posts with little financial best practice fun facts. And we have over half a million followers over there. So it’s pretty fun. Hopefully we try to make it fun and not too defeating or anything like that.

Lauren Tingle 25:17
Right, encouraging and not dry. It’s very practical. And they’ll walk away with some tips on how they can do it. But I love that you have that set up on your website. So if this sounded intriguing to them, or they wanted to take some next steps, you’re gonna walk them through exactly how on your website. So we’ll link that in the show notes. Thank you so much for taking some time to share about personal finances. I know that this is going to be really helpful for my high school counseling listeners.

Jeremy Schneider 25:41
Thank you very much, Lauren. It was an honor. Thanks for having me.

Lauren Tingle 25:44
You can find Jeremy on all of the platforms @PersonalFinanceClub. He’s got a really engaged audience because he gives tons of useful information over on Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook, YouTube, his website, he’s everywhere. I’ll link all of those links for you in the show notes so you can quickly pop over and see what he’s all about.

Lauren Tingle 26:04
If you would like to continue this conversation more, I’d love to hear what you thought about this episode. Send me a DM and let me know something that encourage you or something new that you plan to take action on after listening to Jeremy. I wish you luck in your personal finance journey.

Lauren Tingle 26:20
Thanks for listening to today’s episode of High School Counseling Conversations. All the links I talked about today can be found in the show notes and also at counselorclique.com/podcast. Be sure to hit follow wherever you listen to your podcast so that you never miss a new episode. Connect with me over on Instagram. Feel free to send me a DM @counselorclique. That’s CLIQUE. I’ll see you next week.