How Do You Handle Working with Juniors? An Interview with Leigh Pottle [Episode 139]

Leigh 0:00
So one thing we do with our 11th graders, we meet with all of them in the spring. So we do our seniors in the fall. And then we do our juniors in the spring and we go over like your graduation requirements and what what standardized tests you have left, what your plans are for after you graduate, and when they see their GPA. And when they see what they have left. They’re like, Oh, what happened?

Leigh 0:19
So we do try very hard, I think to instill in them like that grades are important, academics matter, everything matters. But it’s really not until that junior meeting that they finally see it, and the light bulb just kind of goes off. And for some of them, unfortunately, it’s not too late, but they have so much extra work they have to do to make sure that they kind of get back on track or stay on track.

Lauren Tingle 0:41
Welcome back to another episode of High School Counseling Conversations. I think that today in this episode, you’re gonna hear our guest, Leigh’s care and concern for her juniors shine through this interview. She says it herself. These juniors that she works with and that we all work with are just little mini adults.

Lauren Tingle 1:41
11th graders are complex. They’re afraid to admit they’re nervous about big life transformations. And then the big decisions that are coming their way, but they’re still like ready to get out there all at the same time. They’re overwhelmed by all the different pathways that they might take, but they need their 11th grade counselor there for them. They need their junior counselor to tell them it’s all going to be okay.

Lauren Tingle 2:04
As a junior counselor, you get to celebrate the high highs with them. You also get to be there to catch them when there’s disappointment which I am sure there will be. Let me introduce you to Leigh Pottle a high school counselor who works with juniors and you’ll get to hear her real human experience of working with this special group of students.

Lauren Tingle 2:22
Leigh has been a high school counselor for eight years and was a middle school counselor for three years before that. Before becoming a school counselor, she was a high school English teacher for 10 years. She has also taught a few English classes at her local community college. You can connect with Leigh after the show on her Instagram if you have any more questions or want to reach out to her. So without further ado, let me introduce you to Leigh and let’s get to this week’s episode.

Lauren Tingle 2:46
Hey, Leigh, I’m so excited that you’re on the podcast today. I can’t wait to talk to you about having juniors on your caseload.

Leigh 2:52
Yeah. Hi, Lauren. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Lauren Tingle 2:56
Let’s dive right in. Tell us about what your caseload model at your school looks like and how you work with juniors because I don’t think you are just with juniors right?

Leigh 3:03
I’m not. So we do the Alpha split. So I have a certain alphabet. So I work with ninth through 12th graders. So I work with everybody. But we of course work a lot with juniors and seniors, you know, more than, unfortunately, more than our other two grades. I think that’s kind of par for the course with that. But yeah, so we’re all split alpha and there are five counselors in my school. So our caseloads are pretty nice are about 250 to 270 per counselor, so it’s really not too bad.

Lauren Tingle 3:29
Okay, what would you say would be the hardest part of working with juniors? I’m wondering if you’re gonna say like your time being split, because you just kind of fed like other people don’t get as much of your attention but juniors are requiring a lot of your attention, I’m guessing.

Leigh 3:42
Yes. So I think that’s that is one of the hardest parts is you know, if I just had juniors then of course I’d be able to spend all my time with them. But because I have all grades, you know, I’m dealing with freshmen and just getting into high school and then 10th grade is so weird. 10th grades, just a very strange spot for these kiddos. I feel like it’s like seventh grade all over again.

Leigh 4:02
And then the juniors are like, okay, my GPA finally matters. My grades finally matter. What am I going to do when I graduate from high school? And then you’ve got your seniors who are applying everywhere. So I think that’s that’s been a really challenging part of being a high school counselor with the alpha split is just making sure that I can devote enough time to all four of the grade levels.

Lauren Tingle 4:23
Right. What sorts of needs are you seeing with juniors specifically?

Leigh 4:27
So these are my first kids that I’ve had all three years so I’ve had them from ninth through 11th which is pretty cool. And some of them I actually was at a middle school and I moved up with them .

Lauren Tingle 4:38
Oh wow. Some you’ve known for a really long time.

Leigh 4:40
I’ve had them since sixth grade. So it’s really cool to see them like grow up but that was also COVID so seventh grade was COVID eighth grade was COVID. So they did come in in ninth grade and actually had like a normalish I think kind of school year but that was also. I don’t know how you guys did it but our school by If you were masked the whole first semester, and then if you were exposed to COVID, you were out for 10 days, it was nuts.

Leigh 5:07
And then finally, by 10th grade, it was a normal school year, and then this year has been pretty normal. But I think for the 11th graders, they’ve really struggled with realizing that everything matters. These grades matter, your attendance matters, your discipline matters. Like I’ve had students who didn’t get into their career in technical school, because of their discipline, because their attendance, we don’t have those safety nets anymore from our state. I don’t know how your state is doing. But we had a huge attendance policy this year. And we had kids fail.

Lauren Tingle 5:36
Yeah, I feel like you mentioned this before. But it’s like juniors in general just kind of wake up to the fact that like, oh, reality is coming. But kind of what you’re describing this cohort of students coming from, they didn’t have the reminders all the time, like they were at home, and they were coming back into school, like there was a lot of weird stuff going on.

Lauren Tingle 5:54
So even as the counselors normally are telling students, your attendance matters, your grades matter, your behavior matters, like all these things, they like didn’t get as many of those reminders. So they’re waking up and realizing things are important. But they might be like the first or second time they’ve heard that.

Leigh 6:11
Yes, no, I completely agree with that. So one thing we do with our 11th graders, we meet with all of them in the spring. So we do our seniors in the fall. And then we do our juniors in the spring and we go over like your graduation requirements and what what standardized tests you have left, what your plans are for after you graduate, and when they see their GPA.

Leigh 6:27
And when they see what they have left. They’re like, Oh, what happened? I, I reminded you like, if you get a D, the D stays like it doesn’t, it doesn’t go away. And I think that part of that is, I hate to say we do a disservice in middle school with grading, but we kind of do. Because I don’t know how your state does, but in our state, like they are socially promoted. So if you fail, everything in eighth grade, you’re going to ninth grade, you’re going to high school, it’s just going to happen.

Leigh 6:54
So we do try very hard, I think to instill in them like that grades are important, academics matter, everything matters. But it’s really not until that junior meeting that they finally see it and the light bulb just kind of goes off. And for some of them, unfortunately, it might it’s not too late, but they have so much extra work they have to do to make sure that they kind of get back on track or stay on track.

Leigh 7:17
And I think for a lot of these juniors like they just, they also don’t know what they want to do. So we do a lot of career assessments with them. We do a lot of you know, we use SchoolLinks one of the programs, I guess, kind of like Naviance. And they do a lot of career searches and college searches. And we look at post secondary plans, we take them on college visits, we take them we have a Manufacturing Day, we take them to different like businesses around town, so they can see what some options.

Lauren Tingle 7:42
So it’s like they’re not not having the the opportunities out in front of them. But they’re almost they’re just not awake to them yet. It’s like how do you emphasize that importance before it’s like kind of what you said quote too late, like, yeah, obviously not too late to like, recover from whatever. But I mean, too late in their eyes, like they’re feeling like, oh, my gosh, all of a sudden, now I have to make decisions. Now I have to know what’s next. And they’re they’re feeling overwhelmed by that.

Leigh 8:09
They absolutely are. I 100% agree with that. They’re very overwhelmed. And then, you know, of course, by the end of the year now they’re all like, emailing, like, hey, I need my transcript. I need this. I need my GPA. I’m like, Okay.

Lauren Tingle 8:21
They need the calming voice now.

Leigh 8:23
Yeah, I’d be like, we will get there. It’s all right. But But what if this and what if there’s so many what ifs I think in their head? What if this happens, what if this doesn’t happen? And I try to be very real with them and and kind of bring it back to the present moment. And like, Alright, guys, it’s okay. What if it happens? What if it doesn’t? We don’t know. We can’t predict the future.

Leigh 8:44
I need you to calm down. And let’s focus on what we need to do right now. So I think with the juniors, the 11th graders are so funny, because you got like 16 year olds yet 17 year olds, so their hormones are crazy. And they they’re like tiny little adults.

Lauren Tingle 9:01
But they’re not ready to be adults yet that prefrontal cortex hasn’t fully developed, but they think they want to be.

Leigh 9:07
Yeah. So I see like the difference I see in 11th graders from the beginning of the year to the end of the year, it’s just massive, like it’s a huge change in these kids.

Lauren Tingle 9:17
So because you have alpha and you’re seeing all these grade levels, kind of simultaneously. Is there something now that you have had these juniors and through COVID, you’ve had them, are there things that you’re doing differently with ninth and 10th graders to prepare them for their junior year?

Leigh 9:34
Oh, absolutely. So one thing we’ve been doing is making sure we’re meeting with every single student on our caseload, even if it’s just minute meetings. This is the first year we did minute meetings with our freshmen. And it works great. So literally, I talked to them, each of them individually for two to three minutes.

Leigh 9:51
So it’s longer than a minute, but we got to know them like what their interests are, what they’re worried about, what they’re excited about. And then if we needed to check in with them, like we kind of poked star on our spreadsheet, like just knowing that we needed to check in with them.

Leigh 10:07
And then with 10th graders, just making sure that their schedule is set up for whatever programs they’re interested in, because we have a ton of different programs for 11th and 12th graders that are available, but you have to apply in the spring of your 10th grade year. So after we with our freshmen that we meet with our sophomores to make sure like, okay, are these the classes you definitely want to take? Are you thinking about career in technical school? Are we thinking about governor school? Are we thinking about graduating early? I had five juniors, who graduated a year early.

Lauren Tingle 10:37
And if they’re not asking for that, like you would have no idea and you’d have no idea to put that kind of pathway in there, because it’s not as common. And so you know, if they haven’t heard that idea from someone or brought it up to you, then that it’s too late to do that path.

Leigh 10:50
Exactly. It is. And then we do we have a dual enrollment program for our 12th graders, same thing, if I don’t set their schedule up for 10th and 11th grade, then they’re not going to be eligible for that program in 12th grade because they have to only have English 12 and government, when they’re a senior to do that program. So I think it’s really shown us that we do need to meet with all of our kids, it’s so important.

Lauren Tingle 11:13
Even if that’s something so tiny, like it doesn’t feel like, okay, we’re gonna spend our whole year doing these meetings, but like, let’s just check in. So they know, I mean, so they know who you are, because they’re gonna be waiting for four years, they lay eyes on you, you lay eyes on them, you hear what their nickname is, and what they like to be called, like, that’s helpful for you from the beginning.

Leigh 11:32
Yeah, I think it’s so important. And for me, like one of the biggest things I’m a proponent for is establishing rapport, and getting to know these kids, because I am going to have them for four years. And by the time they’re in 12th grade, I might have to write them a recommendation letter, I might have to talk to an employer about you know, we’re in 11th grade, if they’re applying for a job, a lot of them put us down for references. So it’s so important to get to know your kids. And I know it’s really hard. Actually, I don’t because I’ve never had a caseload bigger than 350. But I can’t imagine if you know, having 600 kids on your caseload,

Lauren Tingle 12:07
but I’m hearing you say that it’s worth it, it’s like worth carving out that time to get to know your students, because then you see them grow. Like you see that massive shift and change. And you’re so proud of them. Like there’s nothing more rewarding than that, especially if we’re looking to validate like the counseling staff and the individuals that like the time with students, we all want more of that and less of the paperwork, like, I love that you’re making that happen.

Leigh 12:32
We tried very hard. That’s one of the things that we’ve like as our counseling department. So we were all new, three years ago. And I was a high school counselor and then I went to middle and came back to high school. But at my particular school, it was a whole new department three years ago.

Leigh 12:47
And our lead counselor was like, You know what, we’re not going to do things the way that we used to do, we’re not just all college focused, like, we’re school counselors, we’re not guidance counselors, we’re not just academic advisors, we also have to do this, this and this.

Leigh 13:02
And one of the things that was really important to all five of us was getting to know our kids, and making sure that they understood like we are a safe space for you to come to if you need to come talk to somebody, that’s what I’m here for. And the cool thing about the juniors is finally by 11th grade, they understand that.

Leigh 13:20
Like I had one kid in particular I’m thinking of and in ninth grade, like she wasn’t very open with me 10th grade, she was like, Whatever, I’m too cool. I’m not gonna go talk to my counselor. And now she’s in my office, like every day.

Lauren Tingle 13:31
And you’ve seen that growth, I am so encouraged by a whole team that’s like, hey, we can change things up. Like we don’t have to do things the way we’ve always done them. Let’s try something and see if it works.

Lauren Tingle 13:42
And I think I would be remiss to mention this, that even that stuff that you’re collecting the that anecdotal data that you’re collecting by just talking to students in ninth grade, like that’s data collection, you’re informing what you’re going to do in your program and what your students need, even if it’s not this, like formal needs assessment, you’re talking to them and you’re collecting their their hopes, their dreams, the things, they’re afraid of the things that they need practice with, like, you’ve got really valuable information from that. And so, I mean, I would say to anyone who’s doing that, like keep that information and inform your next steps of your program with that.

Leigh 14:17
And that’s kind of what our plan is. So we’ve been looking at National Board Certification, but also just, we just want our program to be better. We just want to make sure that we’re doing everything for our kids that they need, because they need so much.

Lauren Tingle 14:31
Well I think that’s the right mentality. It’s like, you know, ramp is not for everyone, whether you have the time to do it or not. But if you have the desire to serve your students in the best way possible, and you’re putting students at the forefront, like that stuff will come and the accolades will come. Someone will notice, even if you don’t go through the whole process, like someone’s going to notice that students are different and better because of what you’re doing. And that’s so encouraging.

Leigh 14:56
Yeah, Oh, thank you. So we’re trying we really are. It’ll be my fourth year at the school and we’ve definitely seen a change in in our department and how the students like come and talk to us and how like the fact that they are coming in there is huge. Now of course we have to monitor and manage.

Lauren Tingle 15:13
Some are there too much like to hang out there with the counselors.

Leigh 15:18
Which I love. I don’t mind that as much like I love when a kid comes in, and they’re like, Hey, are you busy? Always.

Lauren Tingle 15:24
Well the answer of Yes. But I would love to talk to you.

Leigh 15:28
I’m definitely going to talk to you, I’m definitely going to feel that like make them feel that they are important and not a burden. So many of them come in, and especially with juniors, I think I feel this a lot with my 11th graders like they think they’re a burden.

Leigh 15:44
And they think they’re asking too many questions. And I’m like, no, please ask ask me questions. Because you might ask me something that I haven’t thought of before. Like, even though I’ve been doing this for 12 years, and I was a teacher for 10 years before that, like, I get surprised by you know, their wants and their needs and their their questions that they have, like, please ask me.

Lauren Tingle 16:07
Yes. And how many times have we heard to like ask the question, other people might have the same question, you might realize you need to do a whole classroom lesson on this because no one is hearing it, or they’re all asking the same question.

Lauren Tingle 16:18
I also think of juniors and seniors, when they’re always coming in and asking for transcripts for things. I’m like, listen, ask me for as many copies of your transcript as you want. If that means you’re applying to more scholarships, I will tell them, the people who are in here asking the questions and getting the help are the ones getting the money. I mean, it’s a direct correlation, so I would be happy for you. If you’re asking questions, that means you’re doing some work and doing something right.

Leigh 16:42
Yeah, I’ve we had so many kids come in this year. And we’re like, hey, I need my transcript. I need this. I need this. I need my GPA. Okay, great here, like, that’s what I’m here for. You’re right, because the ones that did ask for that they got more money.

Leigh 16:57
Even though we would send out we send out emails, we do remind messages are thrilled, share whatever we did this year. And we did all of that information. But it wasn’t until the kids actually came in to ask the questions that they really started applying for them.

Leigh 17:11
And the juniors like we have started kind of the scholarship searches with them, especially some of them who, you know, they’re scared that they can’t afford anything. They’re scared, they can’t afford college, or a post secondary plan or the cosmetology school or whatever, like they don’t have the money. So we’ve been working really hard on trying to make sure all of our students are getting all of that information. So they can hopefully apply for some of these things.

Lauren Tingle 17:37
Yeah, because those fears are very valid. What other initiative have your team put together in terms of either programs or events or like things that benefited your juniors? When you when you guys sat down and said, We’re throwing it all out, we’re starting new. Has there been anything new and fun and exciting for your junior?

Leigh 17:54
Yeah, so we started the first generation college group love it at our school last year. So we did a student needs assessment to see like, Okay, are you a first gen kid and a lot of kids that like the 10th graders didn’t understand what that meant. And so when we did our classroom lesson, we explained to them what a first generation college student is. And we so many kids that were like, Hey, I’m first gen Oh, I’m first gen, like, I need that those qualifications.

Leigh 18:19
So we had like, 10 kids, the first year we did it, and we wrote a grant. And were able to take them on some college tours. And we went on to some local colleges that are like within an hour, and we got to take them to lunch on the campus.

Leigh 18:34
And you know we had students show them around. And there were a couple of schools that like there was one that I went to, there was one that another counselor went to that we couldn’t get in on like the time for a tour. So we just showed them around. We didn’t get to see dorms, but they got to see everything else. And they thought it was the coolest thing.

Lauren Tingle 18:49
Totally. I mean, that exposure is huge.

Leigh 18:51
Yeah, so the fact that they got to see a college campus when they might not have ever been able to do a college tour. I think that was awesome. So they were juniors last year, this year, they were seniors and all 10 of them applied to a college and got in.

Leigh 19:06
And then in the spring, we helped them like, apply for scholarships. And in the fall, we had helped them apply to college, like we sat down with them. And we’re like, Alright, let’s open common app. Let’s look at your school links. Here’s your transcript. Here’s this, let’s sit down and do it together. We reviewed essays, all sorts of stuff with them. So that was our first cohort and our second cohort, we’ve got 20 kids. So the cohort just keeps getting bigger as we go because we just it’s something that we’d like to see grow.

Lauren Tingle 19:33
Well how encouraging to see to do 10 students, and then they tell their friends, your administrators see the good work that you’re doing the grant writing, like that paid off and they had some data to show like, hey, look, all these students applied to college. Look how many schools I got into and how much scholarship money they got.

Lauren Tingle 19:51
And I mean, it just keeps growing based on the good work you’re doing and I’m sure to you as a counselor, you’re encouraged by that you get excited to see the growth in your students and to see them reach new opportunities. They’re proud of themselves. Like, I mean, it just explodes.

Leigh 20:06
It does, it makes you feel good. You know, and sometimes those students like our first gen kids, like, they feel like kind of, they’re the lost ones, you know, and they’re kind of in the middle, and they’re not your AP kids. And they might not be your, you know, the kids who are really struggling, or maybe not on track to graduate. So a lot of them are in the middle.

Leigh 20:25
And we don’t always I hate to say this, but we don’t always spend a ton of time because they know what they’re doing. And they’re fine, and they’re not getting in trouble. And they’re passing their classes. But sometimes those are the kids that we need to really focus on. Because they might not know what they want to do after they graduate. And the first gen group, I think, has been really beneficial for those students, because now they see different opportunities and different options. And it’s been great.

Lauren Tingle 20:54
And when you give them that language, like when you go into a classroom and say, Here’s what a first generation student is, and then they can identify themselves as that, and then they come to you, they’re, they’re just becoming better advocate for themselves.

Lauren Tingle 21:07
I remember, like when that started becoming part of our culture in our school counseling department to have a girl knowing like, I’m a junior, I remember the very beginning of the school year she came in, and she was she wanted to talk to me in person and say, Hey, I’m gonna be the first in my family to go to college. I’m doing it, I am just going to need help from you along the way.

Lauren Tingle 21:25
And I was like, Wow, just the advocacy. Like self efficacy from the very beginning was so impressive to me. And like, Yes, I am here for you, I will be your biggest cheerleader the whole way. You tell me what you need, I’ll tell you what you need to be doing. Like, it just it was the change in the culture just in the in the school, knowing that counselors are here to help students, telling them like what we can help them with. And then seeing them just like flourish and come into that was so cool. And I think a lot of that happens junior year with with those 11th grade students.

Leigh 21:59
I totally agree. And we still run groups for kids who just need college application help in general.

Lauren Tingle 22:04
But it’s a little bit different for that group of students.

Leigh 22:06
It is because they know like, Hey, I’m gonna apply to these top tier schools. And they know they need to take their SATs because so many different colleges are now requiring it again. Whereas we all used to be test optional. Now we’re starting to see more and more schools require the SATs and ACT again, so making sure that every student if they need to take it that they get signed up for it.

Leigh 22:27
All of our juniors take the PSAT and NMSQT in the fall. So our school system pays for it, which is pretty awesome. Yeah. And then we have National Merit Scholarship finalists and communitive students. And you know, so I tell them like, this is another way to get money possibly.

Lauren Tingle 22:39
There’s a lot that goes on junior year, like they have to have their ears turned on for those announcements. And you’re you’re training them for the beginning of senior year, when every announcement that they get is important, and they need to pay attention to.

Leigh 22:53
I always tell them that I’m always like, you guys are gonna get so tired of hearing from me in 12th grade, because I email you like every day. Like, hey, this scholarship just came up or, you know, we’ve got free applicant college application week coming up, or this college is doing on site admissions, because we have a lot of colleges that come and talk to our kids. So yeah, they get tired of hearing me after a while.

Leigh 23:13
But I think it’s beneficial. Because if you if I don’t give you that information as an 11th grader, like you’re not going to know what to do, or you might not know what to do, but it’s just you just need if I can give you all the information that I have, then it will be better.

Lauren Tingle 24:09
When you have imagined like somebody is looking in on the work that you’re doing with juniors, what are you most proud of of your work with your juniors?

Leigh 24:16
I think just the relationship that I build with the kids is something that I find very valuable and kind of, you know, warms my heart. I guess, because I have known these kids since ninth grade and, you know, getting to know them more than just a student just to name like I know them, maybe not all of them as well as you know, I know some better than others, of course, but like I can pick you out in a crowd, like hey, that’s my kiddo. That’s my kiddo.

Leigh 24:43
And the fact that they feel comfortable coming to talk to me now because they know where I am. They know that they can come see me if they need to. They know they can ask me anything because by 11th grade that really is the time where they’re not just coming to ask me about grades.

Lauren Tingle 24:58
And nothing is off limits by the time they’re in 11th grade.

Leigh 25:01
It’s everything. Like, I’ll have a boy that comes in and talks about, like his girlfriend broke up with him. And I’m like, Okay.

Lauren Tingle 25:09
Nothing makes me sadder than a high school boy crying.

Leigh 25:12
I know. It’s just it breaks. It does.

Lauren Tingle 25:16
And but you know, those students so well, and like, especially if it’s like a boy who you didn’t expect to cry, and like, have the soft side, if you’re like, oh, man, my heart just broke any student, you know, by the time you’ve had them for three years, you know them. And when you’ve seen them at their highest highs and their lowest lows it, it makes for that graduation, when they walk across that stage, so much more powerful for you as a counselor,

Leigh 25:38
Oh, 100% 100%. I know that. So this last graduating class that we just had, I’ve known them since seventh grade.

Lauren Tingle 25:45
That’s so wild. Not many people can say that about those students.

Leigh 25:50
It’s, it was really cool moving up with them from middle school. And they actually, I mean, they started ninth grade virtually. So their whole ninth grade year was virtual. And that was very challenging for them.

Leigh 26:00
But yeah, just seeing them walk across that stage and the kid that you thought wasn’t going to make it or you were so scared not think that you have been working to make it but you were so scared, they might not do it. And they did it. And they come over and they thank you. And they say Miss Pottle like I wouldn’t have made it without you. Miss Pottle thank you so much.

Lauren Tingle 26:19
Cue the water works.

Leigh 26:21
I was a mess at graduation. And I know I will be next year too. And the year after that, like, just because I always, I love them. And you know, I hope that they feel that from me is that I do care about them, like, as a person, like, literally genuinely care about them. So I think that’s been the biggest, like reward is just getting to know them. And they get to know me. And you know.

Lauren Tingle 26:46
If you could, you’re divided by alpha. But if you were talking to a counselor who was by grade level, or they were about to work with just juniors, what would you tell like the sophomore counselor who is prepping their 10th graders for going into 11th grade? Like what’s helpful? What should a 10th grade counselor be doing to prep their students for a successful 11th grade?

Leigh 27:07
I think one of the biggest things for us is making sure that we know what their goals are, and what their plans are. And if they want to take more AP classes, if they want to apply to those specialty programs. Like we have a career and technical school that has like welding, cosmetology, criminal justice, culinary arts, stuff like that, because we don’t have those specialty programs in our school. So they have to apply to it. And they’re competing with 17 other high schools. So it’s a very, very competitive program.

Leigh 27:37
So making sure that the 10th graders understand like your junior year schedule has to be set up, in case you get into that program like are you still going to meet all your graduation requirements? If a kid wants to go to our Governor’s School for Science and Math, and technology, like making sure that you have the grades to get into those programs, making sure you’ve taken your PSAT in 10th grade to apply to those programs.

Leigh 27:58
And then some of them want to graduate early. So talking to your 10th graders, and making sure like do your kids want to graduate a whole year early and then move on to their whatever they want to do next.

Lauren Tingle 28:08
And it’s not like you have to have your whole life figured out. But if you kind of have a direction or something that you want to try out, like, that’s what I would tell them about Career Center, too, is this is going to give you elective credits to graduate and better you find out now while it’s free, or much cheaper than going to college or floundering and paying a lot of money for cosmetology school, figure it out now while you’re in high school, and give yourself the opportunity, especially if you have the grades, if you have the attendance, you’re in good standing in terms of discipline, like go try it out and see if you like it.

Lauren Tingle 28:38
But for us around here, it’s a two year program. And so you can’t decide that your senior year that you want to go to the Career Center for that, like, so you’re trying to get that word out earlier and earlier. And so that would make sense that your advice to like a 10th grade counselor or 10th grade student is Hey, explore some of that stuff. Think about what you want your goals to be or what they might be that is worth exploring.

Leigh 28:58
And we have something really like some of our programs are two year programs at the Career and Technical School. So like welding is two years cosmetology is two years, culinary arts is two years. So some of those bigger programs they do last for two years. So you’re right. I mean, you have to know, like, do I want to at least apply to new grants in the see?

Lauren Tingle 29:15
And like you said they’re competitive. So at least put your application in and keep it open if that’s something that you’re intrigued about.

Leigh 29:21
Yeah, so I think that’s super important for 10th graders to explore. We do a whole career lesson with our 10th graders, where we go in and do different career assessments. We work on resumes, we talk about our career technical school, we talk about Governor’s School, we talk about our dual enrollment program that we have in 12th grade, which really you have to set up your schedule 10th and 11th grade in order to do that program too, because you have to apply to that your junior year.

Lauren Tingle 29:45
So it sounds like a lot of 10th grade is very, like research driven and 11th graders were going to take action on the things that you were exploring.

Leigh 29:52
Yeah I think that’s that’s a big part of it. So but they have to know what’s out there in 10th grade. So they can plan their 11th grade to kind of focus on what they want to do.

Lauren Tingle 30:04
Exactly. And if you were taking your 11th graders and sending them off to a different senior counselor, and it wasn’t going to be you, what sorts of things would you like tell the senior counselor about your juniors?

Leigh 30:16
I think some of them are, they’re still unsure about what the future is going to look like for them. They’re very nervous. I think I think a lot of my kids or a lot of our juniors, I think, are very nervous, because it’s like, we’re making kind of adult decisions now. But we’re still kids. You know, that fine line between adulthood and childhood. It’s still there. You know, there’s still just kiddos they are.

Leigh 30:41
But I think this is their time to like, start looking at colleges, post secondary programs, taking tours of schools. We do a Manufacturing Day. So we take kids, if they’re interested to like different plants, you know, and manufacturing places around town. So exposing them to as much as possible.

Leigh 30:56
But I think for the senior counselor, just knowing that, like we’ve kind of laid the groundwork a little bit, but then it’s time to hit it hard and heavy in the fall, because common app is coming up. And early decision and early application. They are fast. And you know, we meet with all of our seniors in the fall like right after we do our ad drops, schedule changes. That’s when we start seeing your meetings, like as soon as we’re done with that, because some of them have October 15 deadlines.

Leigh 31:25
And making sure that, you know, by the time I met with them in the spring, like we talked about essays like Common App essays, we talked about different programs that they should be looking into for 12th grade and beyond.

Lauren Tingle 31:38
A lot of stuff with juniors in the spring, I feel like it’s giving them some homework. They have so many questions, you’re like, Okay, take this and go do something with it, and then come back to me and we’ll go through it. It’s like some of those high achievers or high fliers, you’re like, Okay, I just need you to like, go do something and occupy your nervous energy. Yes. And then come back and we’ll go through it like, I promise it’ll be okay. And you’re just like this voice of reason and reassurance over and over again, like it’s going to be okay. It’s a mantra for a junior counselor.

Leigh 32:10
I know and because they’re like I said, they’re all emailing me right now. Like, I need my GPA, I need my transcript. I’m like, you will get it.

Lauren Tingle 32:16
And you’re like, those admissions officers are not looking at that right now. And can we like give a public service announcement to those college admissions officers who send out these mass emails and then they go on vacation. And so your students are emailing you over the summer and you’re like, calm down. They the transcript is what they need last, they’re not going to look at that for a while.

Leigh 32:38
Right. No, they are and like, I just had a kid email me yesterday. And she was like, Oh, my gosh, my transcripts on at my college and I’m supposed to start there in August and like, it’s okay. It’ll be there. Yep. It’ll be there. So Right. But but it’s not. But so you still see that anxiety and and they’re so freaking out about it. So I think just preparing them for like, yes, we know there are dates and deadlines. But like, some things can come a little bit late.

Lauren Tingle 33:06
And hopefully, as you’ve been working with them, like they do trust you and that and they can take a deep breath and they can say Miss Pottle said it’s gonna be okay. Like, I trust her. It will be.

Leigh 33:14
I promise you, it’ll be okay. But yes, I think setting them up for senior years is is really important. And, you know, just remind if I if I were not, you know, the senior counselor to just reminding the senior counselor like, making sure you’re reviewing the GPA with the kids and making sure you have, they have everything in their schedule. I know I keep coming back to schedules, but like, that’s a big part of what we do.

Lauren Tingle 33:37
Yeah, it’s that high stakes part that feels like we’re really we’re, this is important to us, like we, we are human and we make mistakes, but you want to make as few of those as possible.

Leigh 33:47
Yes, like I look over transcripts over and over and over again, just to make sure I haven’t missed something. And I’m not gonna lie I have, I think we all have we’ve all missed one little thing like, oh, man, that kid still needs a PE or oh, they didn’t pass this one standardized test.

Lauren Tingle 34:05
They’re supposed to do it over the summer and they never did. And I thought we followed up like it’s always a it’s a you and them kind of thing. I’m like you’re you are a mini adult too who can look at this stuff. And you know what your responsibilities are. So it’s not totally on you. But you are more the adult I guess so.

Leigh 34:23
Well, and it definitely like, of course, these are the things that keep me up at night. Exactly. Have I really gone through every juniors transcript to make sure they have everything senior year in order to graduate. And then we’re off for five weeks in the summer and go back in, you know, late July, early August. And then I’m looking at transcripts again, and making sure like, Okay, did my juniors from last year have everything in their schedule this year? Did they not go to summer school? Did they go to summer school?

Lauren Tingle 34:46
So it’s like it’s important that no matter how your caseload model is laid out that you are doing this like detail oriented work and that you feel confident sending them off to the next counselor or you know, if you’re your alpha then it’s what you’ve, you’ve already done that work, but you need to trust yourself that you’ve gone through with a fine tooth comb.

Lauren Tingle 35:05
It’s like, it just makes you realize, okay, we need to be working really well together as a team. And I need to keep doing this over and over and over again. You like, you hope that you get better at it. But there’s always weird scenarios. And I mean, it’s nice to have that continuity of you being their counselor to know about like, the weird things that they studied abroad their sophomore year, and like brought back some grit like you can come up with there has counselors hear everything under the sun. And so, I mean, the, the level of detail you have to go through it with is so crazy sometimes.

Leigh 35:40
It is. And it’s just, and I pride myself on being kind of very detail oriented, kind of perfectionist, I think.

Lauren Tingle 35:48
It works in this job. I mean, I’m sure that somebody is saying thank you for that.

Leigh 35:53
But I we miss stuff. And that’s one that is one thing I talked to my juniors about like, this is yes, it’s on me, but it’s also on you. So you need to make sure you know what your deadlines are, you need to make sure that you have in your schedule, everything you need to graduate.

Leigh 36:08
If you’ve applied to a job making sure that we you have your references down and making sure you’re asking people for references. Because there’s sometimes I’ll get an email from a company or a job or they’ll call me and I’m like, I didn’t know that my kid applied. Happy to give them a reference. So normally, I call them in on Monday morning and be like, Hey.

Lauren Tingle 36:29
Uh huh, anything you want to tell me that I need to help you with. I think that’s really, that’s a great reminder to counselors who are listening that like you should not have to bear all of that stress for 350 plus kids like, that sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud to your students.

Lauren Tingle 36:46
Like I cannot know every single one of your deadlines like that is on you. And that’s a life skill that you’re going to need to have. I’m not going to remind you that you have a doctor’s appointment that you need to go to just in the same way. I’m not going to remind you that you have a deadline coming up. I can’t I can try. But I won’t be able to do that for everyone.

Leigh 37:02
Yeah, no, you can’t like you. Like there’s just.

Lauren Tingle 37:05
There’s no way. I can’t even remember my own appointments like I can’t remember yours too.

Leigh 37:11
I have to okay, my doctor’s appointment is when and when my kids have to go to the dentist. And when is that? So we I mean, we’re human, we have our own, you know, things, we have limited capacity.

Leigh 37:20
And you know, I will always send out reminders like hey, to the whole junior class like don’t forget, National Honor Society applications are due on this date, scholarship applications are due for juniors on this date.

Leigh 37:31
And do the same thing with my seniors. Remember when deadlines are coming up. Have you asked your teachers for a recommendation letter? Have you finished your common app? Have you looked at your essay? Or if they’re juniors like making sure that they’ve signed up for the SATs, if they need the SATs or the ASVAB, we do pushing the ASVAB a lot, too, because it is a really good career interest inventory. So even if they’re not interested in the military.

Lauren Tingle 37:52
That gives you a lot of good information.

Leigh 37:55
So we’ve been pushing that with our 10th and 11th graders. And the results have been kind of cool, like some of the kids will come in and they’re like, Oh, I didn’t even think about that.

Lauren Tingle 38:04
You’re helping them connect dots. And I think what you’re saying is such a good reminder to have that paper trail almost of all those places, you’ve given those announcements, because when somebody comes back and says I didn’t know about it, you’re like, oh, yeah, actually, here are the 10 places that I put it out there. I hate to say that shut somebody up really quickly of them being like, Oh, I do need to pay attention to these things.

Lauren Tingle 38:26
And same with parents too, when they say how can we didn’t know about this opportunity. I’m like, ma’am, here are the 10 places, and they’re like, Okay, like, I’m not trying to make someone feel dumb or something. But I’m just trying to say like, I’m really trying to do my best at like being a PR person and putting all this information out there. But like, you have to filter through it too, and decide what’s important for you and your family.

Leigh 38:46
And some of our families block the emails, or the school phone number, when our principal does like phone blasts, like.

Lauren Tingle 38:54
I had a student do that one time blocked the number from the administrator because they were gonna get in trouble. And then the parent never heard any information for the rest of the school year. And it was a whole thing.

Leigh 39:06
And that’s another thing that I do with the 11th graders is just reminding them, you have to pay attention to your email, please, please, please pay attention to your email. Because even in college, work, whatever, you’re gonna have to read your email. So that’s really I mean, even though I tell them ninth and 10th grade 11th grade is really when I stress it, it’s like you have to look at your email. You have to look at the principal’s newsletter, the counselor send out a newsletter.

Leigh 39:30
I think we’re we don’t have a social media yet. But I think we might need to start one. I think there’s a growing I mean of all of our kids are on social media and they’re on Instagram, Snapchat and whatever. I don’t even know what else is out there. I’m old. So I don’t have a lot of social media. But you know, and I think we’re going to have to start doing a lot of those things because it’s quick and fast information. Like I can put a quick little Instagram reel on there like hey, don’t forget college application week is this week.

Lauren Tingle 39:56
Right. And they their mom will send it to them when they’re following and they see it or they send it to a friend. I found that students love, like at the end of junior year, senior year when they get to be acknowledged for things like you get to celebrate students on social media too, which makes them like want to be a part of it, which I think yeah.

Leigh 40:13
I do that a lot on my own like personal page like with we do it like a college and career signing day, May 1st, so I love that day so much. So I always put on there like all the pictures of the kiddos.

Lauren Tingle 40:24
Well look, you’ve got that experience already. You can do it for your people.

Leigh 40:28
They don’t check Facebook, right?

Lauren Tingle 40:30
Somebody told me recently that high schoolers are getting back into Facebook. And I was like, you’ve got to be kidding me. That’s always like, you know, Mom, my mom’s on Facebook. I don’t want to be there. And they were like, no, they’re using it again. So we’ll have to see if other listeners have heard.

Leigh 40:44
I’m curious about that. Every time I say that the kids are like, my grandma uses Facebook. Right?

Lauren Tingle 40:50
So maybe it’s making a comeback? I don’t know.

Leigh 40:53
I mean, I remember MySpace when that came out. So that’s right. But yeah, we’re looking more into that. So yeah.

Lauren Tingle 41:00
Leigh this has been awesome getting to hear about your experience working with juniors. Is there anything that I didn’t ask you about that, either advice that you would give to a junior counselor, or someone who is about to inherit some juniors? Anything else that you wanted to add?

Leigh 41:16
For the juniors. I think one of the biggest things is that they’re the ones I see the most, apart from my seniors, they are they’re a special bunch, because like I said, they’re like tiny, little tiny adults. They think that they’ve got it all figured out. But they don’t quite have it all figured out. And some of them yes, they know exactly what they want to do. And others have absolutely no clue.

Leigh 41:39
So you’re gonna run the spectrum of, of kiddos there. And just being open, and just listening to really just need you to listen. And to guide them. I mean, really, they need guidance they do and support with what their future goals are.

Leigh 41:49
And you know, as far as colleges are concerned, like, if I look at a kid’s GPA, and I’m thinking in the back of my head, oh, my gosh, you’re you’re not gonna get into the top tier school. I will never tell a kid ever. I will always remind them that, you know, what is your dream school? This is what you want to do? Let’s apply and see what happens. I’m not a College Admissions Advisor. I don’t I have no idea you might get in.

Lauren Tingle 42:19
I love that leaving the door open for them.

Leigh 42:21
Yes, yeah. Because I will never tell a kid like not to do something because you’re not going to get it. Because I don’t know. And you might get it.

Lauren Tingle 42:28
And honestly, part of life is figuring out what to do with disappointments too. And so there’s going to be a learning experience, whether it’s good or bad that you’re they’re gonna take something away from.

Leigh 42:39
Yes, and just knowing that you are there to support them is so important. And I think if you establish that by the end of junior year, then when they come to you as seniors, they’re going to feel comfortable talking about their hopes and their dreams and disappointments and everything else. And just I think just being there for your kiddos is the most important thing.

Leigh 43:02
And I think that’s why we all get into this, because we want to be there for them. But yeah, I love my juniors. They’re interesting bunch of kiddos, I love them so much.

Lauren Tingle 43:10
For sure that was so like, there’s such a sweet like feel good moment to end on. I’m really thankful for just the insight that you gave us to working with your juniors. And I’m so excited that this was such a good conversation. I think a lot of counselors are going to benefit from hearing it and either be encouraged in what they’re doing or a little less nervous if they’re going to be working with juniors for the first time when they’re listening to this.

Leigh 43:33
Yeah, I think anybody who gets to work with juniors, I think it’s very rewarding. So I think I think you’ll enjoy it.

Lauren Tingle 43:39
Well, thanks for being on the podcast this week, Leigh.

Leigh 43:41
Thanks, Lauren.

Lauren Tingle 43:43
Thank you so much for that conversation, Leigh. I know that people are gonna benefit so much from hearing your perspective.

Lauren Tingle 43:49
I’m going to link a few things in the show notes that I think you’ll find helpful after our conversation. Mainly a free data guide because we talked about how easy it can be to collect data when we just kind of forget that there are things out there that we’re collecting, and we can do things with that.

Lauren Tingle 44:03
And then a first generation small group curriculum. If you especially got fired up to help your students in that way after hearing Leigh talk about running a first gen group, I have a resource for you. So check out the show notes, check out these episodes notes for all the links that you might need after listening to this week’s episode. Stay tuned next week we have our senior episode. I’ll see you then.